Comments on: 50 Years of Stupid Grammar Advice – ChronicleReview.com

By: Curtis Chambers

Curtis Chambers — Fri, 20 Nov 2009 15:35:54 +0000

I took a course on the history of the English language in college, and one of the professor’s main tenants was that there is no right or wrong in language. It is what works. People can make up rule books if they want, but who gives them the authority to say what is or is not correct.

Unless you are a student, taking a course in English grammar, in which case you better conform to whatever the text book says is correct, or you will be penalized.

Outside of school, it is what works that counts.

By: Daniela

Daniela — Mon, 25 May 2009 16:20:32 +0000

Sometimes grammar is just a matter of taste, and sometimes it’s just wrong.

By: Mr. Gunn

Mr. Gunn — Tue, 28 Apr 2009 04:00:45 +0000

I’d give S&W a break, too. While some of it is needlessly prescriptive, it’s exactly the kind of very basic advice many people need to hear. To this day, I’ve never used the phrase “the fact that” in any sentence, and my writing has been better for it.

By: Michael L.

Michael L. — Mon, 27 Apr 2009 16:09:23 +0000

@Timothy: I've responded to your question and asked a couple of my own in this comment.

By: Ben

Ben — Sun, 26 Apr 2009 18:02:29 +0000

I wasn’t the one defending my typo (though I appreciate the attempted assist); it’s a blatant late-night error.

It may be true that advanced writers don’t need S&W’s elemental advice, but most of the academics I have to have to plow through would make a lot more sense if they followed some of this “stupid” advice. That’s all I was trying to say.

BTW: How can we empirically measure good style?

By: Matt Thomas

Matt Thomas — Sat, 25 Apr 2009 21:39:46 +0000

Ugh. Please see Michael Leddy on why Pullum is wrong about Strunk and White.

By: Timothy

Timothy — Mon, 20 Apr 2009 05:11:49 +0000

Maybe so, Ben. Maybe I’m missing something, but every British source that I’ve seen preserves the noun/verb distinction between advice/advise just like American English does.

By: Guest

Guest — Mon, 20 Apr 2009 02:35:24 +0000

Timothy:
There is nothing wrong with “advise.” It is the British spelling of the word.

By: Timothy

Timothy — Sun, 19 Apr 2009 21:26:30 +0000

A question for Ben: Which “style advise” [sic] from S&W would it be that would benefit writers: “Omit needless words”? “Be clear”? “Do not explain too much”–?

As Pullum points out, it is exactly this kind of meaningless style advice that makes S&W of little real value to anyone who wants to learn anything about writing beyond the most elemental basics.

IMO, S&W is highly popular and widely accepted because it operates on the same skill level as those who eagerly accept its shallow advice and who don’t notice its errors. It’s the “McGuffey’s Reader” of grammar and style books, good for primary-level skills only. The idea, as I have heard expressed often, that S&W contains “everything a writer needs to know,” is pure nonsense.

By: Ben

Ben — Sat, 18 Apr 2009 18:58:04 +0000

Strunk & White may not be 100% accurate when it comes to grammar, and I know some academics are enjoying beating on it now, but just about everyone could benefit from their style advise.

Note also that where the Chronicle writer is critiquing S&W on passives, S&W is actually talking about verbosity.